Ep 136: Menopause: A Catalyst for a Thinner & Healthier Body with Dr. Lourdes Viado

Dr. Deb Butler: Welcome to Thinner Peace in Menopause and Beyond. This is Dr. Deb Butler, master life and weight coach, and as always, your coach. Today is episode number 136. And I want to talk to you about the best thing that could ever happen to you. It’s probably happening to you, and it’s called menopause. Stay tuned.

Hello, all my dear friends, how are you today? It’s still beautiful fall here in St. Louis, Missouri, and I just love looking at it. Today I’ve got something a little different to share with you. I was interviewed by Dr. Lourdes Viado, oh, maybe a couple months ago, and she has a podcast that’s called Women In-Depth, and it’s conversations about the inner lives of women. And guess who got to be on that show? It’s yours truly, me. And I thought it was such a good interview because she asked some really tough questions and really made me go deep into my own experiences. And after I listened to it, I thought it could be really helpful for you too because Dr. Viado is very, very good at getting to the heart of things. She’s a psychotherapist. So I thought it was really good, and between my blend of coaching and brain science and her approach, I think we really came up with a great interview.

So for this episode, I’m going to stop in a few seconds and just let you listen to the interview. But before I get off, I do want to say one thing to all of you. Many, many of you are signing up for mini-sessions, and I think that is so fantastic and so brave, but here’s something I want you to think about. Please do not wait to January 1st to decide now is the time to work. I guarantee you that the time to work is now during the holiday season, and I am not kidding you. If you want to get this work done fast, do it now. Don’t wait. Don’t wait till you put on more weight and feel worse about yourself. Start doing it while all the stuff comes up. And I’ll tell you what will happen is you’ll actually have a much more joyous holiday season where you feel like you’re the one in control. And then come January 1st, hey, guess what—It’s a piece of cake. Pardon the pun. So if you’re thinking about doing a mini-session with me, do not do what one person just did, which gave me the idea. I just saw somebody rescheduled from November 29th to January 3rd, and I know what that means. So if any of you have ideas like that, don’t do it. Don’t listen to that crazy mind of yours. Start now.

And I think this interview that I do with Dr. Viado is going to help you decide now is the time—now in terms of the time of year, and now in terms of where you’re at in your own body cycle. Menopause is absolutely—if you don’t think so after you hear this interview—it is really the best time to search within yourself. Your body is talking to you. It is the best time to get to know yourself. In reality, you really do already know yourself, and you already have the wisdom to know what works for you and what doesn’t work for you. But this, when you listen to this interview, I think it’s going to help you decide what you want to do with the next half of your life and use it for all of the things that you’ve dreamed about, be it the kind of body you want, the kind of life you want, the kind of work you want, whatever it is that you want. Use this time to get it. So, without further ado, enjoy the interview.

The information found in this podcast is not a substitute for help from a licensed mental health professional.

Dr. Lourdes Viado: Hi, and welcome to the Women In-Depth Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Lourdes Viado. Join me as we explore the inner lives of women, their struggles, fears, hopes, and dreams. We’ll go beneath the surface and take a deeper look at what is hidden, unknown, uncertain, and uncomfortable.

Hi, and welcome back to the podcast. Today, I am really excited about the topic that we’re going to be exploring, and it has to do with an experience that we women struggle with, and I think we also tend to view with dread, and that is the experience of menopause. So today, my guest is Dr. Deb Butler, who is a board-certified chiropractor and acupuncturist as well as a certified nutritionist and master weight loss and life coach. She helps women who are going through menopause—but not just menopause—in general, struggling with and perhaps having difficulty embracing various life experiences. And these are women who come from all walks of life, from overstressed executives to stay at home moms, to those experiencing menopause and a lot more in between. Dr. Deb utilizes a blend of brain science, nutrition, physiology, life coaching, and life lessons, teaching that meaningful change starts from the inside out.

Hi, Dr. Deb, and welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Deb: Thank you. It’s so good to be here. It’s taken a while for us to get together, and I’m so excited to be here.

Dr. Lourdes: Yes, it has taken a while, but I think that’s also, you know, it can be a metaphor for a lot of the things that we take on or we say yes to, and there’s a bit of a struggle. It doesn’t quite go the way we planned or expected. So, I see a parallel between the process of us getting right now to where we are to even, you know, with the work that you do, and I think the work that a lot of those who are in the helping professions try to do with the people they’re serving.

Dr. Deb: Yes, and I also believe in perfect timing, and I think this is the perfect time that we’re supposed to be talking together right now.

Dr. Lourdes: Absolutely. So I’d like to start off with, can you share how you found yourself to be working in this very specific area of menopause?

Dr. Deb: Well, I guess what many, many people probably will say is sometimes the thing that you struggle with the most is what you want to help other people with the most. For me, going through menopause and also having a weight issue for my whole life, putting the two of them together was like a bomb because I’ve always had this huge problem with going up and down the same 20 to 30 pounds for 30 years. Even though I was a specialist in nutrition, and I knew everything about the body, I absolutely could not control myself around keeping my weight where it needed to be. I was constantly using food for all kinds of reasons.

And once I started going through menopause, all my little tricks that I always use, and my biggest trick was being a lifetime Weight Watcher member, which means that every single time I gained my same 20 to 30 pounds, I went to Weight Watchers to lose it. And then I left once I lost it, and then I went back to my old ways, and then once I gained it, I would go back. And when I hit menopause, that stopped working too. And my weight was so important to me, as I know it is to so many women, and we put so much emphasis on it.

And once I realized, and this was also at the same time that I started transitioning into life coaching, so I was learning all these tools about the mind. And as I was becoming a life coach, I realized what I needed to help people with the most was the struggle that I was having, which was how in the world do you stay at a weight without having to use food to either numb yourself or to congratulate yourself. And once I figured that out, that is what I wanted to share with the world, but especially with women who are going through menopause. Because if you’ve been struggling your whole life in your mind and about food and thinking there’s something wrong with you, because here I was, I knew so much, and I knew, I thought, “There’s got to be something wrong with me that I can’t do this,” and it was all locked up in my mind.

And so once I got that figured out, I knew what I had to help women with was number one, realizing the weight loss has nothing to do with food; it has everything to do with how you think and feel about yourself. And number two, menopause is like a transformation time; it is time to do what you always knew you needed to do that you hadn’t done. And then I kind of look at it like adolescence, only you’ve got like 30 or 40 years much more experience to really use that wisdom to decide how you want to live the next half of your life.

Dr. Lourdes: Right? Because like what you were saying, all the things that used to work no longer work as well, like you were describing, you know, the Weight Watchers trick.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Dr. Lourdes: And then you come to this place where you have to figure something out, and I remember reading on your website, I don’t know if it was a blog post, you wrote about you know menopause actually being a time that can be very catalyzing, that it can really propel you forward in terms of your overall health and well-being.

Dr. Deb: Yes. And it’s because, like I think that we have all this wisdom now. Like we really know what doesn’t work, and we really do start to find what really works for us—we become wise. And if we really use that information because many women, including myself—I had no connection to my body. I didn’t eat when I was hungry and stop when I was full. I followed things that told me what to eat and when to eat. And I think the most basic connection that we have as human beings is the connection to our body and the most basic connection is hunger, eating when you’re hungry, and it’s like the most basic thing. And most women that I work with do not have that connection.

Dr. Lourdes: Isn’t that like just so ironic that, I would say that most women struggle at some point in their lives, several times in their lives, with their weight, and yet, we have a disconnection with our bodies. But again, you can see the reason and then the irony right there.

 

Dr. Deb: Yeah. And it’s like when people come to me, and they’re going through menopause, it’s like if you’ve never had a connection with your body, in other words, you don’t know when to go to sleep, you don’t listen to your body when it tells you, “go to sleep.” Many women do not; they push themselves. As a chiropractor, I worked with so many people that they decided to take care of their bodies when their bodies were screaming with pain, not when their bodies were whispering with pain, and it’s kind of the same thing like with hunger. It’s like our body talks to us. It tells us these most basic things, the most basic information, that if we listen to it, we have a really good chance of being healthy. And we learn at a very early age how to stop listening to that, then we hit menopause, and we have to connect to our bodies. Our bodies are begging us to connect. And most of us have no clue what that means, and it’s a huge wake-up call.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah, the wisdom of the body and listening to the body.

Dr. Deb: I know.

Dr. Lourdes: It sounds so simple, and it makes so much sense.

Dr. Deb: But it really is that simple. And maybe, you know, more as women than men have been taught things that take us away from our own bodies. You know, like striving, accomplishing things at our own expenses, taking care of other people without paying attention to what we need, as if that’s the best thing that we could do—being selfless, putting ourselves on the back burner, and putting everybody else in front of us—as if that’s what a good girl should do.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah. And I think you are hitting right on what you know one of the things that I wanted to ask you, which is, what are the things that women do that, I guess, set themselves up or sabotage themselves or, you know, as you describe that they get in their own way, and I think that has got to be at least number one or in the top three of, you know, that striving and doing everything for everybody else?

Dr. Deb: Yeah, and I think we’re probably in a culture that supports that. I don’t know that we’re in a culture that supports a woman taking care of herself first. I don’t know that we support that. So it really is something that needs to be taught, and I don’t think it’s taught. And I think probably the biggest thing that needs to be taught that is not understood is self-love and self-compassion.

It’s like I think we know how to be compassionate towards other people, but I don’t think we know how to use compassion on ourselves, how to be kind to ourselves. And I think when we are missing that, I think most women that I talk to are so mean to themselves. They say terrible things to themselves, about how they’re lacking, how they’re missing, how they’re not doing it right all the time, how they could be doing it better, like whipping themselves into shape all the time, when they should be loving themselves into shape all the time, the way they do their children and the people that they love the most, and we don’t do it.

Dr. Lourdes: And so this lack or absence of kindness, self-compassion, how does this connect to mindset and the way that a woman’s thoughts impact her well-being?

Dr. Deb: Well, let’s just say, for instance, that there are many of us who believe that we’re not doing enough, that we’re not enough, that we should be doing more. It seems to be a very common thought that I have around many of my clients, and so they’re always striving to make themselves better and to be doing more. And guess what? There is never enough. And so what you say to yourself, or what one says to themselves all the time is, “It’s not good enough. You should be doing more. What’s the matter with you?” As opposed to applauding yourself for all that you do. It’s like complimenting yourself. It’s like what a concept to say, “Great job, sweetheart.”

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: “I can’t believe you did so good.” It’s like, guess what? Nobody says that to themselves. They just say, “Okay, well, what’s next now? What are you going to do?” Right? And it leaves us with feelings of feeling inadequate with ourselves because of what we tell ourselves, and we don’t have to be talking to ourselves like that.

Dr. Lourdes: And so I can see the vicious cycle in that, where, you know, when we talk about women being overextended and taking care of everybody. If you’re able to shift to that mindset of acknowledging what you’ve done, complimenting yourself, then that actually leads to a sense of enoughness because you don’t need to do anymore; you’ve done enough. And then that leads to beginning to pull back or to stop overextending and giving so much.

Dr. Deb: Yeah, and it also leads to feeling good inside your own body because what we tell ourselves, which are just thoughts.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: They create feelings inside of us.

Dr. Lourdes: Right. Absolutely.

Dr. Deb: Right? And our feelings are coming from how we think about us. We think it’s coming from the outside world.

Dr. Lourdes: Right.

Dr. Deb: But it’s coming from our own minds.

Dr. Lourdes: You’re absolutely correct with that. I don’t know how many times I say this to clients. But you know, I know how difficult this is because, of course, I’m sure you’re aware also, this is constant inner work that you’re doing. You’re never done. You get to practice all the time. And I think even like, for me, sometimes I’ll have this sense of, “I have so much to do. I’m rushing, rushing, rushing,” and then I have to catch myself because I’ll notice, “Okay, you’re getting anxious. You’re a little irritated.”

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Dr. Lourdes: You know, and then the sense of, “Okay, so what are you thinking right now? And the thought is…”

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Dr. Lourdes:  You know, “I have too much to do. Everyone’s interrupting me and giving me more stuff to do, and I’m not going to get it done.” And then I have to, “Okay, so you’re saying that you have to get all this done? Is that true?” And it’s, “Actually, no. I don’t have to do everything. You know, I can do this, this and this,” and that process helps to shift me at least from the anxiety to maybe a more self-accepting space of where I am and what I can actually accomplish?

Dr. Deb: Yes, and that is a skill.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: That is something that really takes practice. It’s like I think a lot of people think that, “Oh, okay. So all I have to do is just change my thought about myself.” But the thoughts that we have about ourselves usually have been wired pretty strongly in our brains.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Once we’re aware what we’re thinking, that’s probably, the biggest a-ha is to realize that it’s just a thought.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: And you’ve just been thinking it for so long that it’s become a belief system for you based on thinking something.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: And then it’s optional.

Dr. Lourdes: And it may not even be true. That’s the other thing.

Dr. Deb: And usually, it’s not true.

Dr. Lourdes: Usually, it’s not true.

Dr. Deb: That’s the biggest. And it’s such an a-ha moment when people realize for the first time, that they realize that they’re thinking something about themselves that they don’t have to be thinking and that they almost, with laughter, realize how silly it is, once they can observe it without being connected to it and letting it be visceral for them.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah. So in your work with women around menopause and weight, what are some of the, I guess, the more common struggles or experiences that women come to you with, in terms of the struggle with menopause?

Dr. Deb: Well, most women that come to me come to me during menopause because they’ve been struggling with weight their whole life, and, now, menopause seems to be making it harder than ever. Because that’s really who I’m talking to…

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: …And that was me. And really, it’s not that menopause is making it harder. It’s just letting them see what they’ve been doing their whole life that really wasn’t in their best interest, really does not work during menopause because, in menopause, your body absolutely is changing. There is no doubt about it. But for me, it’s almost like my body, once I really started connecting it and taking care of it, actually was working better for me.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Because I started listening to it. I had never known what it means. I teach a concept called being a body whisperer, which means being able to listen to the most basic things in the physical body but with whispers, as opposed to making your body scream at you to get your attention. So you can have pain at a level two or three, or you can have pain at a level ten. Many people do not do anything with their bodies unless their bodies are at tens and screaming, which is the hardest time to take care of it. It’s so much easier to do it when it’s lower level. You can figure it out; you’ve got time to take care of it.

Hunger, if you’re always waiting to feed yourself when you’re starving, you’re gonna overeat if your body’s screaming at you. If you eat and all you do is eat until you’re stuffed, you’re having your body scream at you to stop eating. And bodies—our bodies were not meant to be screamers; they’re whisperers. And we are connected at that. We were made that way. We were made to be deeply connected to our mind and our bodies deeply, and you know it when you see children.

Dr. Lourdes: Right.

Dr. Deb: Because, you know, you cannot stuff, you cannot put an extra morsel of food in a three or four year old’s mouth. You’ll not do it.

Dr. Lourdes: No.

Dr. Deb: I mean, they’ll throw it in your face before they’ll eat it.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Right? And you can’t make them eat it if they’re not hungry, and you can’t stop when they’re hungry. You can wait till they’re screaming at you, like at a level negative ten starving, or you can pay attention to them when you realize they’re starting to get hungry. And as parents, we all know, we carry food around constantly because we don’t want to let them get to that point.

Dr. Lourdes: Right.

Dr. Deb: But as adults, we let our body scream. I have women that say, “Well, I just couldn’t eat all day because I was so busy.” I go, “Oh, would you do that if you are with your kid? Are you kidding me?” They wouldn’t do it. They wouldn’t put up with it, right? But they let their bodies scream and throw tantrums, and they say, “Just shut up. I don’t have time for you right now.”

Dr. Lourdes: You know, that is such a good metaphor. You pack everything that, you know, your child has water, snacks, you’re paying attention, making sure that they have been fed, watered, and napped, and rest of it, you know.

Dr. Deb: I mean, everything. You are, you know, you come with your kitchen sink when you go anywhere with your kids, right? You’re prepared.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah. But then to prepare your own snacks and nourishment for your day, right?

Dr. Deb: It’s just as important.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: It’s just as important that you would take that. I think of some of the days when I go out, how long it takes me to prepare myself for my day.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: You know, I need to have walking shoes, I need to have my snacks. I mean, it takes me some time, and it’s exactly what I would have done for my son when he was little, and it’s exactly what I’m willing to do for myself now, and it’s exactly what we all have to be doing for ourselves is we have to take care of ours. There is nobody that is going to take care of us. If we want to proactively age, we better take full responsibility for it now, and the only way to do it is to listen to your body—the only way. And so menopause is, “Hello, are you there? Are you listening to me? I’m getting louder,” and many women are forced.

Dr. Lourdes: And so really, it’s not that it’s menopause, like it’s the dreaded menopause, you know.

Dr. Deb: No.

Dr. Lourdes: It’s actually been the accumulation of ignoring or not hearing the whispers.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Dr. Lourdes: And then now you get to a point where you can’t anymore and because you’re at this point, definitely what you’ve been doing doesn’t work anymore.

Dr. Deb: Yes, and you still have a choice. I mean, you can keep going.

Dr. Lourdes: Right.

Dr. Deb: It can be miserable, and there are many women, that’s how they do it—you know, menopause is the worst thing that ever happened—you hear it, and they’re miserable. But really, it is transformation time. And really, I mean, my second half of life is so much better than my first half. Because I had so much experience in my first half, I use it to move myself forward, body, mind, the whole thing.

Dr. Lourdes: So it’s really a beautiful window of opportunity for women.

Dr. Deb: It’s the most beautiful window that we will ever have. And our body is equipped, and it’s ready to transform; it’s ready to transition.

Dr. Lourdes: What a different mindset than “My body won’t do anything that I want it to do,” right?

Dr. Deb: Well, it won’t if you keep doing what you’ve been doing. That is proof that it’s so true.

Dr. Lourdes: Right?

Dr. Deb: But, you know, I think about this. About a year ago, I sent out a blog of myself in a swimming suit, swinging on the beach. And I never, in my first half of my life, would have ever sent out anything with me in a bathing suit.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: I don’t know how I actually really look, but I think I look good. I could never think I looked good before, ever. You know, it’s my mind; my brain was a mess. And now, I can look at myself, and I can actually like what I see. And I’m so much older, and, you know, I mean, probably in many ways, my body looked better, but I didn’t see it.

Dr. Lourdes: Like, as you described, I think many of us have been in the same shoes of trying to lose weight, gaining the weight back, and doing all kinds of programs, going to the gym. But what is lacking are the two pieces that you’ve mentioned several times already, and one of them is listening to your body; the other one is shifting the thoughts, the mindset. That that didn’t happen before, and so that’s also why all the things you did when you were younger didn’t work.

Dr. Deb: Correct.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: But you thought they did work because, oh, usually was, “Well, I lost weight.”

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: As if that was the goal. It was never the goal, but in our little brains, and our little young brains, that was the goal. And however we did it, it did matter. You know, I could stay up for days on end and not sleep when I was like 20.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Was that a good thing to do? I don’t think my body let me.

Dr. Lourdes: Right.

Dr. Deb: I mean, I’m just giving that as an extreme example, but just think of all the things of how we’ve mistreated ourselves over time, and that we had so many chiropractic patients that would come in and say, “You know, I just can’t do what I used to do.” And I’m going like, “That might be a very good thing.”

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: That might be a very good thing that you can’t do what you used to do because a lot of the things that you used to do, you shouldn’t have been doing to begin with.

Dr. Lourdes: Right? It’s just so powerful.

Dr. Deb: I think so.

Dr. Lourdes: It’s powerful. It’s simple, but yet, you know, the process of making these changes is not as easy as how we’re discussing it.

Dr. Deb: It is not, but I will tell you what, the people who come to me who’ve been struggling for 20 to 30 years, that’s worse than the work that it would take to stop it.

Dr. Lourdes: Could you speak a little bit— now I want to shift gears a little bit.

Dr. Deb: Sure.

Dr. Lourdes: And what is the brain science behind menopause and diet? Because I think that’s really fascinating. I’d love for our listeners to hear that.

Dr. Deb: Well, the thing with the brain is that it’s wired by how you think. So we know that there’s neuroplasticity now; we know the brain can change. That’s the good news. For instance, for me, my brain was wired that any time I felt bad or stressed that the best thing to do was to eat. So it was very automatic. I didn’t think about it. Just any time I felt bad, I immediately went to eat because my brain was almost making me do it because it had practiced it for so long. And so, the changing of the brain by, when I’m working with women now, either in menopause before or after, the brain is different as you’re going through this. And I think, in some ways, it might be even more moldable. Don’t know for sure. But when we really look and see that feeling better by eating a doughnut isn’t really feeling better. It’s like when we actually look at what we’ve been thinking because I think we just believe we had to do it. I have women that say, “Well, I just couldn’t control myself.” The reason they couldn’t control themselves is because their brains are on automatic, running these things over and over and over again, and not being aware that it’s just a thought that’s been running. And that the changing of that thought by being aware of it is everything.

Dr. Lourdes: So, you know, when you describe how the brain is wired, is this the same thing as we’re talking about neural pathways?

Dr. Deb: Yes, new neural pathways compared to the old neural pathways.

Dr. Lourdes: Right. And for me, the way that this made sense was I would imagine that, for example, that kind of an autopilot ability to just reach for a bag of chips or something crunchy.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Dr. Lourdes: I think of it as like a really wide, like a six-lane highway.

Dr. Deb: Superhighway.

Dr. Lourdes: Superhighway. Right?

Dr. Deb: Yes. Sister, we think alike.

Dr. Lourdes: And it has, you know, a car pool lane, it has all these signs, these lights. It’s really easy to drive, and you don’t even have to think about it; it just gets you where you want to go, and then…

Dr. Deb: Boom, we’re there.

Dr. Lourdes: Boom, we’re there, you know. And then when it comes to changing your thoughts, for example, like becoming aware that you’re being self-critical and changing that, that is like looking at this big plot of overgrown, undeveloped land, and now you have to make a freaking road there.

Dr. Deb: Yes, and it’s bumpy, and it’s hard, and you can barely get through it, and that old superhighway is so fast.

Dr. Lourdes: It’s right there. You know, why would I do this when it’s right there?

Dr. Deb: Right there.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Just right there. Right. And that is the hard part, and that’s also the practice because as you start practicing, that road that has not been formed yet gets to become formed, and the more you start thinking it on purpose and being aware of it, the more it can end up being a highway, just like the other one. It just takes a lot of practice.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah, and I think that’s the other aspect of this. This is ongoing.

Dr. Deb: Yeah, this is ongoing.

Dr. Lourdes: You have to maintain this road.

Dr. Deb: Yes, it is. It’s ongoing, but I can’t think of anything better than for you to be aware of your mind and practicing all the time. It’s the best gift that you could ever give yourself for the rest of your life—is that awareness of your own mind.

Dr. Lourdes: I love that you describe this as a gift. This is a gift that will affect all parts of your life, your relationships.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah, it’s not just like, you’ve said it’s not about the food, it’s not about the weight—it’s so much bigger than that.

Dr. Deb: So much bigger than that. The weight is a symptom. That’s all it is. It’s a symptom to let you know that something is out of whack.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah, absolutely. The symptom is there. You know, it’s funny because, as a therapist, when I speak with clients about symptoms of anxiety or depression. I tell them, “Actually, it’s the same thing as if your body was having a symptom like you had a headache or your stomach hurt, that your body’s telling you something’s off. So when you are feeling anxious or depressed, that is just your psychological body, letting you know something is off.”

Dr. Deb: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more.

Dr. Lourdes: So if someone’s listening, and they’re finding themselves, that they can relate to what we’re describing, what would you suggest for them, as you know, as first steps in moving forward?

Dr. Deb: Well, probably the best step, what I offer is, I offer what’s called a mini-session where someone can actually talk to me for 30 minutes. And I do that because I think it can be so illuminating. I mean, I don’t know about you, but when I talk to somebody, I usually can see something in their brain that they can’t see.

Dr. Lourdes: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: And it doesn’t take long to see it. And so I love being able to show somebody something that it’s just like an aha moment because many times if we’ve never practiced, or we’ve never seen that we don’t see our own brains, and we don’t see our own thoughts, you know, and that those thoughts are optional. So I offer a 30-minute session to help somebody see that a little bit more clearer, and the way that they can do that is by going to drdebbutler.com/workwithme.

Dr. Lourdes: And we’ll make sure to include that in our show notes as well, along with your other links to your social media. Also, can you share a little bit about your podcast?

Dr. Deb: Sure. It’s called Thinner Peace and Menopause and Beyond. And basically, what I do is I share client stories, podcast stories, and just share my own knowledge about everything that we’ve been talking about today. It’s amazing. I think I’ve done 120, and there are so many topics to talk about. I never run out of topics to talk about. Feel so empowered with themselves, and with whatever age they’re at. I just want them to feel empowered, and I really feel that this is a wonderful way to help them do that.

Dr. Lourdes: Thank you so much for sharing your time with me today.

Dr. Deb: Thank you.

Dr. Lourdes: I am so excited about our conversation because I know that there are so many women who are, you know, just struggling at this space of menopause, and they’re feeling bad about themselves. And I know that this is going to bring some, you know, insight, potentially some relief, some understanding to so many of our listeners and also the tools to begin to navigate their way through this process and that menopause is not this dreaded experience that is, you know…

Dr. Deb: No.

Dr. Lourdes: You know, all the things that society and women, you know, women are a big part of it.

Dr. Deb: Correct. Yes

Dr. Lourdes: Of making menopause this monster, and it’s not.

Dr. Deb: It’s not, and really, I think menopause and any extra weight that you have on your body are both gifts to help you go in and figure it out.

Dr. Lourdes: That’s powerful. Oh my gosh, I’m so glad that you said that. And I love that we are wrapping things up on that note.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Dr. Lourdes: Take care, and thanks so much again for today.

Dr. Deb: Thank you.

Dr. Lourdes: Thanks so much for listening to the Women In-Depth podcast. I hope it brings you a deeper understanding of yourself and others, and that you found some insights that illuminated and inspired. You can follow Women In-Depth on Facebook and YouTube, and if you haven’t yet, please subscribe on iTunes and leave a review. And finally, if you enjoy Women In-Depth, please share with a friend. Again, thank you so much for listening, and see you next time.