Ep 163 Take the Power Away from Food

Thinner Peace in Menopause, Weight Loss and Beyond, Episode 163

Dr. Deb Butler: Welcome to Thinner Peace in Menopause and Beyond. This is Dr. Deb Butler, master life and weight coach, and as always your coach. Today is episode number 163. I’m doing the live coaching session today on eating sugar. It’s gonna be a good one, you’re gonna see yourself in her. You’re gonna get a lot out of this. Stay tuned.

Hi, everybody, how are you today? It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood. Hey, I’ve got such a good recording for you today. I decided to – I got a letter from one of my listeners. And it was so compelling to me because I know a lot of you think just like she does. So she just sent me the letter hoping that I would just answer it. She didn’t even want to talk to me. And I sent her a letter back and asked her if she would like to be coached live. And she sent me a letter back and said she was a little nervous about it, but she would do it. Her name is Cynthia and we have never met, but I want to read the letter that she sent before you hear me coach her just so you can see a little bit of her background. And then she’ll tell you more about it. But what I really want you to see is how coaching can be so helpful, and how no matter what you think you know about yourself, you really can never know because it’s very, very difficult to coach yourself.

So I have a feeling that you will see yourself in her which is why I put her on, and she’s so brave to come on. And by the way, if any of you out there are brave and you would like to be coached live, number one, you’ll get a lot of help from me for free; and two, you’ll probably help a lot of people out there who are not as brave as you. So anyway, I’m going to let you hear this coaching session. But before I do, let me go ahead and read the letter that she wrote to me, because I think it’ll help you.

So in her subject line, she wrote, “Chocolate Nighttime After-Dinner Eating,” and she said, “Hello, Dr. Deb. I don’t want to take up 30 minutes of your time, but I would like a few minutes for you to help me figure out a strategy for my longtime habit of eating sweet treats after dinner. Actually, with treats in the house, I may go for them even after breakfast and lunch. It feels like I live for my sugar fixes.”

Now, you guys, I’m still reading the letter, but I just want you to listen to this letter to see if you can see all the thoughts that she has. I really want you to see this. So she goes on.

“Talking to myself isn’t working. I haven’t been successful in moderation – decades of attempting that, I think I will have to quit sugar. But that scares me and I fear failing for the 100th millionth time.”

Wow, what the fuck that is.

“I’m only about 12 pounds overweight. So it’s not like I should feel so discouraged, but I really do. Thinking all the wrong thoughts, I’m sure. P.S. I’ve been a runner for 40 years, running was one of my greatest joys. I don’t mind slowing down with age, but extra weight sucks the life out of my running happiness.”

That’s her letter. Do you hear all the thoughts in there? Did you hear that last thought? “I don’t mind slowing down with age but extra weight sucks the life out of my running happiness.” Can you imagine thinking that all the time, how much fun running would be?

So anyway, stay tuned. I want you to hear this coaching session. I think it was brilliant. I think she had a lot of aha moments, and I think you will too. Enjoy!

Dr. Deb: Hi, Cynthia, welcome to my podcast. You are a brave soul to come here and talk to me.

Cynthia: Hi, thank you for having me.

Dr. Deb: It is a pleasure. And the reason that I invited you is because you wrote me a letter. It’s just what so many people are thinking that, don’t say, and you were brave enough to write it to me and to get help. So I thought maybe we could talk about the letter that you sent me and maybe a little bit about your background. I know you’ve been listening to my podcasts, and what you really want help with today. So why don’t you tell me just a little bit about you just, you know, how old are you?

Cynthia: Well, I’m 66.

Dr. Deb: Okay, my age. Exactly.

Cynthia: Yeah. And let’s see, I guess the main thing about me is that my lifestyle has always been around running. So I’ve been running since I was 25, and that is just a very important part of my identity just like being a mom and a grandma and a wife. So that extra weight gain that I’ve had . . .

Dr. Deb: How much weight gain have you had?

Cynthia: Well, it’s not very much, but to me, it’s a lot. It’s, you know, 12 to 14 pounds. And so when, as a runner, that is very difficult to carry around at that extra weight. And, you know, I probably look fine in my clothes. I’m just not, you know, terribly overweight, but in my mind, it’s a big detriment because it makes it so hard for me to enjoy my running which is part of who I am. And then as the aging, you know, the aging process, you get slower and you have more injuries and, you know, there’s more things to deal with like that, so I can manage that. But the extra weight is not coming off for me because of my, the way I’m thinking about it, or maybe what I’m eating, but I just haven’t been able to accomplish that weight loss that I want. And not and also the freedom from, “Oh, I gotta have this, I gotta have that, you know. Oh, I gotta lose weight. Oh, you know, oh, I lost two pounds, and then I gained it back and then I lose three pounds and then I gained it back. And, oh, I’m going on vacation.” You know, that’s going to be a problem. All of that mental baggage that’s going on, I would, I would like to be free from that.

Dr. Deb: So, you, like a lot of people that I work with, it’s not that you have a lot of weight, but you have a huge burden.

Cynthia: Yes, it’s a yes, mental and emotional.

Dr. Deb: Mental burden. And I really like to point that out to people because there’s some people out there that have so much more weight to lose. And I just want them to understand because I was more around where you are, I was more like 20 pounds all the time. And it felt like 100 pounds to me, and so I can understand what you’re saying. So, I think what we want to talk to you a little bit about today, what I would like to talk is about this burden that you’re carrying. And the first thing that you said to me-and I just want you to be aware of that-is that you think that as a runner, that it’s much more difficult with the extra 10 pounds.

Cynthia: Yes, I do believe that.

Dr. Deb: I know. And what I want to point out to you is that it’s a thought that you have. It’s not actually a fact that you could prove in court. And what I want you to think about I know, I know, I know you want me to, I know you want to tell me this is a fact, right? But you couldn’t go to court with that. You couldn’t prove it because there would be plenty of people that could say, “Oh, I’m 30 pounds overweight. I run all the time.” And the judge would not be able to rule in your favor, it just wouldn’t happen.

Cynthia: So it’s a belief that I’ve had or that I’ve held for almost for my whole life.

Dr. Deb: About what? What is the belief?

Cynthia: About what you just said that it, you know, more weight. It makes it harder to run and, you know, makes you slower and it makes it just more difficult because, imagine, that you go out for a run and you just take some, you know, extra 10 to 15 pound barbells with you.

Dr Deb: That’s what you’re imagining?

Cynthia: That’s what I imagined. Yes.

Dr. Deb: And so all I’m saying, to start out with, that because you identify yourself as a runner – you think of yourself as a runner – which is really important to you. The thought that it’s so much more difficult because of this weight. How does that make you feel when you think that thought?

Cynthia: I feel discouraged?

Dr. Deb: And that’s all I can say. I just want you to see that your discouragement isn’t coming from the 12 pounds on your body. It’s coming from a thought that you continually think that makes you feel discouraged about that, not about the weight.

Cynthia: Yes, that’s true.

Dr. Deb: Yeah. So what I want to ask you is when you feel discouraged about your weight when you’re running, or when you go to sit down to eat. When you think about this, what do you do around food when you’re feeling discouraged?

Cynthia: When I feel discouraged I want more cookies, more ice cream, more chocolate.

Dr. Deb: Good to know.

Cynthia: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: It’s good to know. So the letter that you wrote me, and I think the problem that you’re talking about is that you think that you have a problem with sugar.

Cynthia: Yes.

Dr. Deb: Why don’t you tell me a little bit about that? And then we’ll kind of bring all of this together.

Cynthia: Well, I think that the problem is because I don’t tend to overeat, you know, fuel food, regular food that’s nourishing. I, just, food is not that exciting to me. Except that the treats, you know, chocolate and cookies and whatever cinnamon rolls that I make or anything that’s loaded with sugar. I just really love it. I mean, I think genetically, I’m predisposed to really loving sugar more than salty stuff.

Dr. Deb: Okay, so let’s stop there for one second. So, you have a thought that you’re predisposed to sugary stuff?

Cynthia: Yeah, because I always have liked it all my life. I mean, what kid doesn’t like sugar, I guess.

Dr. Deb: Well, what I want to say to you is that when you think that “I’m predisposed to sugary stuff, I’ve loved it all my life,” you realize you’re not telling me the news. You’re telling me some more thoughts that you think about yourself. You there with me?

Cynthia: Yes. I understand what you’re saying. Okay. I do think that.

Dr. Deb: I know you do. And what I want everybody that’s listening is, I can’t tell you how many times people say this to me, and the other thing that you said is “I love sugar.” Okay. You think you’re reporting the news to me, but what you’re doing is you’re telling me another thought that you have around food. Now you say to me, “Food, isn’t that exciting?” But treats. Now, to me, what you’re calling treats, I call food – cinnamon rolls, cookies. All about that’s still just food, and it’s funny you don’t call it food.

Cynthia: No, I don’t call it food because it’s not really nutritionally sound.

Dr. Deb: I know. But what food does not have to be nutritionally sound. You can’t go to court with that. Food is just food. All of it – food, I think I would have to Google it, which I’m not going to do right now to look up the true definition of food. So I’m not sure what we could go to court with on food, but you kind of get the gist of what I’m talking about.

Cynthia: Yes, I do. It’s along the lines of, you know, dividing food into good or bad food.

Dr. Deb: Talk to me about that.

Cynthia: Well, I don’t think of food as being good or bad either. But, you know, there’s that little twist of, I think of treats as being not the best choice. And it makes me crave more, so I have put it into that category. The category of “not so good for me.” This is not good for me, this is not going to make me feel good. This is not going to help me with my weight loss. It’s not going to help me with anything really other than just the simple momentary pleasure of eating it.

Dr. Deb: So here’s something really interesting to look at. We can make it a true fact that you see a cinnamon roll, and the thought that you have about it is that “It’s just not going to help me. It’s not good for me.” That’s the thought that you think. How does it make you feel when you want to eat a cinnamon roll? You see a cinnamon roll, and the thought is “I shouldn’t eat it. It’s not good for me. It’s only going to make me feel bad.” When you think that, how does it make you feel?

Cynthia: Somewhat discouraged and hopeless, and I won’t be able to overcome that craving.

Dr. Deb: So, would you say that it kind of makes you feel deprived when you think “I shouldn’t be eating that,” or more discouraged? You just tell me.

Cynthia: I think more discouraged because I know I can have whatever I want when I want.

Dr. Deb: No doubt about that.

Cynthia: Yeah, so I don’t feel deprived because I can, you know, go to the store and buy my favorite cookie or something.

Dr. Deb: I know, but let me ask you this. You told me that cookies and all those foods are more in the bad category.

Cynthia: Yeah, they are.

Dr. Deb: So, if you can eat whatever you want, do you believe that you can eat the foods that are bad for you?

Cynthia: I can, I can eat them, but I really don’t want to.

Dr. Deb: I think you think you can’t eat them. And I think you want to eat them. Tell me where I’m wrong.

Cynthia: That may be true.

Dr. Deb: So sit with that for a while. So just think about it. You’re looking at these foods. You’re telling yourself that “I can’t have them, that they’re bad for me, and they’re not going to do anything for me.” And it makes you feel discouraged, and so actually what you do is you eat them.

Cynthia: Yes, that’s true.

Dr. Deb: So obviously, the thoughts that you’re thinking – I think you’re thinking them because you think it’s going to help you.

Cynthia: I am, because I think it’s gonna make me be a little more sensible about the quality of food that I’m eating.

Dr. Deb: Brilliant! So how’s that working for you?

Cynthia: You know, over the decades, not so well.

Dr. Deb: Right. So you know, maybe the problem isn’t the food. Maybe the problem isn’t even the sugar in the food. Maybe the problem is the thoughts in your head.

Cynthia: Okay. I’m quite aware of my thoughts. I’m not aware of how they’re not serving me.

Dr. Deb: Well, when you think “I shouldn’t be eating those and those are bad for me,” it sounds like a logical thought, right? Except the way that it makes you feel is discouraged. It doesn’t help you; it doesn’t empower you to not eat them. It encourages you to eat them by the discouragement. See, the problem is we think thoughts like it sounds like such a great thought, huh? Like I shouldn’t be eating those. Like, it’s the most sensible thought you could think of – “What is the matter with you, Cynthia? You shouldn’t be eating those, you’re a runner. You can’t eat that stuff. If you put that, you’re gonna gain weight. It’s gonna be so much harder for you to run.”

Cynthia: Exactly.

Dr. Deb: Right. And you know what your little brain says? Excuse my language.

Cynthia: No, I was thinking something worse than that.

Dr. Deb: Oh, okay good. Well, we won’t say it. I try to keep my mouth clean.

Cynthia: But I mean that is absolutely right because that little rebel in me is going like “No, I’m gonna have that.”

Dr. Deb: That’s right. And that little rebel in you really is the most primitive part of your brain that wants to keep you safe and happy. And it’s been trained by you to believe that you should have those quote unquote, treats. So for you, and what a perfect time in your life to think about this is the thinking that you’ve been using to help you has only been hurting you.

Cynthia: Yes.

Dr. Deb: But you didn’t know it.

Cynthia: No.

Dr. Deb: You thought by being mean to yourself and saying things like “You better not eat that, you know what it’s gonna do to you.” Can you just see yourself like talking to yourself like a little kid? “What are you doing? Didn’t we talk about this already?” And when I talk on my podcasts about compassion and self kindness, this is exactly what I’m talking about. What most people think is like – well, I would say to myself – “It’s not a problem! Go ahead, sweetheart, do whatever you want.” I would eat the whole kitchen.

Cynthia: I want it all!

Dr. Deb: You think you want it all, but I guarantee you don’t; because I think you have some real beliefs in you that don’t align with that either. That’s why you eat when you’re hungry and stop when you’re full and you eat a lot of feel food. But if you just believed that these quote unquote treats were food, and maybe like in my podcasts – I call them joy eats – that, yeah, there you can enjoy them. There’s nothing wrong with it. Like you’re eating them anyway, only you’re telling yourself you’re the worst person in the whole world because you eat them.

Cynthia: And then I’m the failure.

Dr. Deb: And then you’re a failure, but it doesn’t stop you from eating. That’s the problem – it doesn’t work! And so the reason that I even started talking about joy eating is that actually, if you had some of these foods, and you thoroughly enjoy them, I certainly have foods that I thoroughly enjoy, but I just eat until the point of enjoyment, and then I stop. And I don’t make it a big deal. I enjoy it. You’d be surprised how less you would want them.

Cynthia: Because they’re not the forbidden fruit.

Dr. Deb: They’re not. Because they don’t, I mean – number one, you’re eating them anyway. This is the biggest thing that I want you to see, and everybody that’s listening. It doesn’t stop you from eating it. All your meanness in the world doesn’t stop you. It encourages you. And then you have the whole cycle of beating yourself up for being terrible. And you go in this whole negative spin cycle over and over and over again for decades. And then you say to yourself “Listen, the problem is sugar. The problem is I’m predisposed to liking sugar.” Then, you start blaming it on the food. And as long as sugar is the problem, and it holds the power over you, you have no power.

Cynthia: Well, so what is coming up for me with that is that there’s, you know, the physiological reaction of your body to sugar is to make you want more.

Dr. Deb: True, but you also have a prefrontal cortex that’s stronger. You can think. So, for instance, if you eat whatever it is that you like a cinnamon roll or whatever, and it tastes delicious. How many of them do eat?

Cynthia: Usually two.

Dr. Deb: Two, why don’t you eat 25?

Cynthia: Well, they don’t taste good after that.

Dr. Deb: Because you stopped yourself; because something stops you. So, there is more power than you believe. Otherwise, you would just keep eating and eating and eating. Forever.

Cynthia: So, I’ve kind of given sugar the power over me.

Dr. Deb: It seems that way. Especially when you think how much you love it. Are you married?

Cynthia: Yes.

Dr. Deb: Okay. Do you love your husband?

Cynthia: Yes.

Dr. Deb: Okay. Well, why would you put sugar in the same category because you said you love sugar.

Cynthia: Because sometimes it’s more fun than he is.

Dr. Deb: Oh, lovely. So it’s a wonderful honor.

Cynthia: It’s a pleasure. It’s a pleasure.

Dr. Deb: Okay, but let me ask you this. Does loving sugar give you the results that you want?

Cynthia: No.

Dr. Deb: Does loving your husband give you the results that you want?

Cynthia: Yes.

Dr. Deb: Right, and that’s why we always look at our thoughts. And we look at what they’re giving us, because that is very useful to decide – do I or don’t I want to continue to use these thoughts? Do they serve me or not? And loving sugar isn’t serving you. The thought of loving sugar isn’t serving you.

Cynthia: No, it is not serving me, and my mind has kind of got into a little twist right there. Well, so it’s not serving me and I have known that. And I’ve tried. So, all of my thinking has been in the effort to stay away from sugar, or to at least moderate it so that I, you know, don’t overdo it. And then, since I’ve been trying to moderate it or stay away from it, the way that I’m thinking about it is wrong. I’m really struggling here with how to describe how I put the sugar into this separate category of kind of not forbidden, but “no, we need to stay away from that,” “that’s not good for you,” “you really need to cut that out.” So, that’s been my thinking, but what you’re telling me is that my thinking about that has led me to this whole problem in the first place.

Dr. Deb: Well, what do you think when I’m telling you.

Cynthia: So, thinking about sugar that I shouldn’t have it, and I want to stay away from it has made me want it more.

Dr. Deb: Well, that seems to be your result from that thinking.

Cynthia: So, if I were to think I can have the cookie or cinnamon roll or whatever, you know, when I want it – after dinner, sometime when I’m just wanting some treat. It’s fine.

Dr. Deb: Yes. Well, it’s all fine to begin with, because you do it anyway. So, part of, I think, what we’re talking about is that you said to me that you think you can have anything you want.

Cynthia: I do.

Dr. Deb: But you don’t think you can have anything you want; because you don’t think you can have that. And what if you believe that you could eat anything you want, and all of that is an all in the same category. It’s just what do you want, do you really want it?

Cynthia: Well, I think I really want it.

Dr. Deb: I know you do because of the thoughts that you see. Like I think you’re up until this point of talking to me. I don’t think that you saw these thoughts as thoughts about your sugar. I think you saw them as reality, as facts that were unchangeable.

Cynthia: Yes, because it seems like I’ve proven to them as thoughts.

Dr. Deb: Yes!

Cynthia: Yes, because if I have, I think, if I have two cookies then I need to have, you know, half of the bag or even the whole bag, you know, by the end of the day.

Dr. Deb: Tell me why do you think that?

Cynthia: I think, because that’s what I’ve always done.

Dr. Deb: And so that’s the result, right, of eating a lot more cookies than you intended. Right? And the reason for that is because you thought something about that when you started.

Cynthia: I thought I shouldn’t have more than a one or two.

Dr. Deb: Yes, it sounds like such a great thought, doesn’t it?

Cynthia: Yeah, it really does because it’s like the good parent, you know, as a child.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Cynthia: So, in order to be a good parent to myself, I would need to think “What? I’m getting stuck with that.”

Dr. Deb: Well, starting to be a good parent to yourself, just like if you were wanting to discipline a child who really wanted something, “I really want it!” Throwing a fit. Okay, the worst thing I think you can do with a child that’s throwing a fit is yell back at them.

Cynthia: True.

Dr. Deb: And scream at them, and tell them “How many times did I tell you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,” and they’re already screaming.

Cynthia: Yeah. And what I would say to a child would be, “Oh, my gosh, I know how much you want that, but, you know, we’ll have some later.”

Dr. Deb: And you calm them down.

Cynthia: Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Like, it’s not the end of the world, sweetheart, here. You can have it again. I promise you, just not now. You know, but it’s like you start calming yourself down because now we’re getting into the field of urges, because what’s happening is like when a kid’s screaming for something, it’s because the urge is so strong. And for you, sometimes you create an urge by thinking “I shouldn’t have it.” Your urge, the desire to want to eat it, is coming from the thought that “I shouldn’t eat it.” You with me on that?

Cynthia: So far, yeah.

Dr. Deb: Okay, and what I teach my clients all the time is that you have to teach your brain how to manage that thought. So, the thought “I have to have it” is coming from the most primitive part of your brain, your screaming toddler. “I have to have it,” or “I shouldn’t have it,” or “why can’t I have it” or any of that, and it creates an urge. It wants it and when you can see that, because we’re talking about it now, so you’re gonna have some awareness around it, you might be able to take a deep breath, and maybe calm yourself down. It will not be easy because the urge is strong and you’re feeling it inside your body. But when you can say, “You know what? It’s like when I shouldn’t have it, or I should, I shouldn’t have it, but I want it. Right? Something like that. It’s like, I know how bad you want it, sweetheart. It’s just not gonna do you any good right now; let’s just wait. Or you can have it later, or if you want it later, you can have it, but let’s just calm down. Because what I would teach you or any of my clients is how to handle these urges, and urges come from your mind, from your thinking.

Cynthia: So, if the urge just kind of spontaneously combusts –

Dr. Deb: What do you mean?

Cynthia: Well, I mean, there’s not necessarily a thought before the urge.

Dr. Deb: No, there is, that’s what I’m saying to you. There is. You’re not just aware of it. It doesn’t just happen.

Cynthia: But I think that the urge is, you know, such a strongly ingrained habit that there is not a thought process involved. Once you’ve established that habit, it’s like, there’s no thought involved in it. You first get the urge and then maybe you have a thought.

Dr. Deb: No, I disagree. It feels like that. It feels like that because it’s on automatic processing.

Cynthia: If it’s automatic, then there’s no need for a thought, right?

Dr. Deb: No, the thought is automatic. It’s like a process of “Oh my God, I shouldn’t have it” or “Oh my God, I want it so bad.” It creates the urge to eat it and it goes over and over and over again. How do you stop that? Because that’s like a neural groove in your head that is so ingrained. It’s like a superhighway. It’s gone and the car is gone before you even can see it. But once you start talking about it, like you’re talking about it with me, there is an awareness in your brain that this is happening. And you can stop it, I promise you. It’s not so automatic that you can’t change it. It’s just automatic that it is such a strong belief that it goes unattended. And because we know about neural plasticity, we know all of this is changeable. And problem is that when you’re creating a new neural pathway, it’s like the difference between a superhighway – it’s like you’re on a road that you’re developing. It’s bumpy, and it’s dirt and it’s hard and you get stuck. But if you keep doing it, you will create a new highway that will be very different.

Cynthia: Yeah, it would just be establishing a new habit.

Dr. Deb: Or a new thought that you would believe and practice. This would take a lot of practice because you have a lot of practice. You can call it a habit, or you can just call it a thought that you’ve been thinking for so long that you just think it without thinking. Just like you think “I love sugar,” just like “I’m predisposed to sugar,” just like, you know, “I can’t run if I have extra weight on me.” You know, all of those thoughts are not serving you. They’re not helping you get what you want.

Cynthia: No, they’re not.

Dr. Deb: Yeah. And so the good news is that, and the reason I wanted you on the phone today, is because like in your letter that you wrote me you were wanting strategies. You know, like what to do.

Cynthia: Well, all I was thinking that I should just, you know, totally give up sugar.

Dr. Deb: Right, which that would be something to do, but I wouldn’t do it without changing my thinking first. So when we talk about strategy, the first strategy is always “Can you see what you’re thinking? Can you see how it’s creating what you don’t want?” And then, “can you start changing the way you think?” And then, you can start changing what you’re doing because it will be long lasting.

Cynthia: And I can, I’m aware of my thoughts. I just wasn’t aware that those thoughts were not working. They weren’t helping.

Dr. Deb: Yes, of course. I mean, believe me, when we’re up in our heads, we think we’re doing the best we can, right? And so one of the things that I think you could take away from today, that’ll be helpful for everybody that’s listening, is if you want to test a thought, say it to yourself and see how it feels. And if it makes you feel yucky, it will not be helpful. No matter how pretty it sounds.

Cynthia: Or how logical.

Dr. Deb: Yes, how logical. Yeah, like logical, like your mind goes, “Oh, that’s a good thought.” Right? And your body, your feelings, your emotions go: no. How do you hear that in your body? It feels bad. And so that will help you realize that it’s not helping you. I think that’s the difference. It’s like when you’re in your own head, sometimes it’s hard to see this. And that’s why coaching is so useful. It’s because I can see inside of your head, things you can’t see as you can see.

Cynthia: Yes, that idea of my thinking being not helpful was kind of an aha moment for me.

Dr. Deb: Beautiful. Well, I’m sure if it was an aha moment for you. It was an aha moment for a lot of people, because we are only trying to help ourselves. But the problem is for us, and I’m speaking mostly for women, the way that we try to help ourselves is by being as cruel as possible.

Cynthia: Well, that doesn’t work.

Dr. Deb: Because, well, we think we can take it. We would never do it to another human being, but we would do it to ourselves to try to get better results because we can take it, but we can’t take it. You’re right, it doesn’t work. So when you get off this call with me, the best strategy that you can have is to go back and listen to this recording. Go back to your letter and take out all the thoughts that are in it. Because you have so many thoughts, you don’t have a lot of facts about yourself. You have a lot of thoughts that are not serving you. And I want you to take them out and go, like, differentiate the difference between the truth of what you’re saying to me – the fact like you’ve been running for 40 years. That’s a fact. The fact about what you weigh, it’s a fact. And you just told me you’re 12 pounds overweight, so I don’t even know if that’s a fact for sure, but it’s a thought. But you could just say your weight. And you could say that you weigh too much or whatever, right, or you think you weigh too much. I mean, somebody else may – you may go to court. In fact, this is another really great thing, you may not even be 12 pounds overweight. It could be a thought. I don’t know for sure. And so the only thing we know for a fact is how much you weigh. And I don’t know that, but if you would say it, then that would be the fact and then you have a thought that you’re 12 pounds overweight. And how does that make you feel? But I’m getting a little – I’m starting to get into all kinds of thoughts, but it’s just something really interesting to look at even when you think of yourself as overweight. Right? How does it make you feel when you think you’re overweight?

Cynthia: Well, obviously crummy.

Dr. Deb: Yes. So it’s almost like not helpful either. You know, because there’s so many good things that you do for yourself. And it’s like, if you’re, I don’t know. Like, if I’m with my kids, or if I’m just talking to you, I try to help you see the good things. Do you help yourself see?

Cynthia: No, I don’t do that.

Dr. Deb: I know. But if you feel crummy about yourself because of how you think about yourself. That’s the only reason you feel so crummy. Do you think that you would take better care of yourself if you felt better about yourself?

Cynthia: I think I would not feel driven to eat so many treat things. I think.

Dr. Deb: Yeah, like, I think you think that if you take the 12 pounds off, you’ll feel better. I think you’ll feel better when you change the way you think, and then you’ll be able to lose your weight.

Cynthia: Okay.

Dr. Deb: Does that make sense?

Cynthia: I can try that.

Dr. Deb: All right. Well, I think this is a great place to end because we really dived into a lot of your thinking. Thank you for being so open.

Cynthia: Well, thank you for having me. Thank you for talking to me. It was really helpful and really, seriously eye opening.

Dr. Deb: Beautiful. Well, if it was eye opening for you, I’m sure it was eye opening for a lot of other people. And I really just want you to see the value of coaching.

Cynthia: Yes, I do.

Dr. Deb: You know, beautiful, beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Cynthia, for being on the program and keep listening and you have some work ahead of you to do, which is just rearranging your mind a little bit.

Cynthia: I’m going to work on that.

Dr. Deb: Thank you, Cynthia.

Cynthia: Thank you.

Dr. Deb: Well, I really enjoyed doing that interview with Cynthia. And like I said in the beginning, I really appreciate her courage to come on. She had a lot of aha moments, I hope you did too. And I want you to see that you have a lot of thoughts that you’re using that sound good. Like, “I shouldn’t eat that, you shouldn’t eat that. That’s bad for you, that’s gonna make you feel bad.” But what I want you to get from this coaching session: that the thought can sound good, but if it makes you feel bad, it’s going to cause you to do something you don’t want to do. Cynthia showed that perfectly. I hope you got that. If you’re thinking a thought that sounds good, that makes you feel bad that’s not a good thought for you. It will not serve you. It’s a great question to ask yourself: Is it serving me? Is it giving me the results that I want? You could see with Cynthia, that as much as she told herself how bad it was for her, the only thing she did was eat it more, it didn’t matter. So I hope you got a lot of this coaching session. And listen, if you want to be coached live with me, send me a letter to drdeb@drdebbutler.com. Write me, tell me what the problem is just like Cynthia did just like I read her letter, and I will be happy to coach you on the podcast. You will get a lot of help, and you will help a lot of people. And as always, you guys, you know what I’m going to say. No matter what you do for the rest of this week, I want you to be very, very kind to yourself. And make sure that the thoughts that you’re thinking make you feel good, and that you believe them. See you next week. Bye-bye.

Dr. Michael Butler: Hope you enjoyed this podcast with my wife, Dr. Deborah. I’ve enjoyed working with her and living with her. That’s right, we work and live together for 40 years – more than 40 years. It’s amazing how time flies. And it’s been like a little tree growing in the yard now. It’s a big tree, our love. So I would like to invite you to correspond with Dr. Deborah. Go to iTunes, drdebbutler.com/iTunes, and you can review the show. And you can even give some helpful suggestions on what you would like to talk about in the future to accomplish your mindfulness and your journey into mindfulness. Thank you.