Ep 165: How to Make Your Weight Loss Last with Samantha

Dr. Deb Butler: Welcome to Thinner Peace in Menopause and Beyond. This is Dr. Deb Butler, master life and weight coach, and as always, your coach. Today is episode number 165. And I’ve got a special treat for you, but you can’t eat it. Stay tuned.

Hey, everybody. How are you today? It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood. Gorgeous, gorgeous day. And today, I am so excited. I know that I’ve been bringing clients on more frequently because I’ve got so many who want to share their experiences with you. And I just—oh, my gosh. I just love them so much, and I feel like they’ve come so far. And I want you to hear what they have to say. And the reason that I want you to hear what they have to say is not for you to compare and despair, but for you to become inspired, that if they can do this, you can do this too. Because I promise you, every single one of these interviews that you hear, they started where you are.

And today, the person that I’m interviewing, Samantha, was no different than you, and maybe in some ways, even had more struggles because she was at it for a longer period of time. And she has some things that are a little bit different from you, too. She talks a little bit about bulimia, and she talks a lot about how she saw herself and how she saw food. And she talks a lot about how her life has changed so drastically since she’s been managing her own mind, not just around her body and food but her whole life.

And if I haven’t told you enough about this, the work that we’re doing together, the work that I put out in this podcast, is so much bigger than your weight. You know, for some people, it’s not like I am here, as an eating disorder specialist. That’s not who I am anymore, than I am going to say, “You’re going to lose this amount of weight.”

I am here because I think the message that I have for you is that you have an opportunity to learn how to manage your mind, and when and if you can, the experiences in your life and the actions that you take can be so very, very different—and I think Samantha is just a perfect example of this. So please enjoy this interview with her. Learn from her, become inspired from her, and know that if she can do it, you can do it too. And at the end of her interview, don’t forget, I’ll come back on and say a few words just like I always do. Enjoy.

Dr. Deb: Hi, Sam. Welcome to the podcast.

Samantha: Thank you, Dr. Deb. I can’t tell you how honored I am that you asked me to do this today.

Dr. Deb: Well, I can’t tell you how honored I am that you gave me the privilege of being able to work with you because it really feels as much of an honor on my end as what you just said.

Samantha: Oh, thank you.

Dr. Deb: We’ll just get all that.

Samantha: Okay. We’ll get over our mutual admiration society this morning.

Dr. Deb: Well, I just think we could admire the heck out of each other as much as we want through this whole call.

Samantha: Thank you. I will.

Dr. Deb: Okay. So let me ask you a question. I was trying to figure out, there’s so many things about you that I would like to share with my listeners. So I think what I want to do is just start with, if you wouldn’t mind just telling us a little bit about yourself and why you decided to do a mini-session with me.

Samantha: Alright. Well, let me begin. I think I’m like many of your other clients. I have a lot of degrees. Professionally, I’ve climbed to the top of my profession.

Dr. Deb: What profession is that?

Samantha: I’m a lawyer and a retired judge, and I’m well-known in my community. But I think what led me to your podcast was the fact that I had been, despite my outward success, I had been hiding a secret from everyone in my life. And that secret was that I had become bulimic when I was 25 years of age, and I had continued to practice bulimia regularly. Sometimes more than one time a day until, frankly, until I found your podcast. I have a strong spiritual belief that things happen for a reason.

And in January of this year, I really felt like I had to do something to turn this around, that I was harming myself psychologically because I was depressed over the fact that I was not being honorable by lying, frankly, to everybody in my life about what I was hiding, and I decided that I had to stop it. And so I, in my own mind, thought, “Well, if I could just slow down, maybe that would help.” Then I began looking for a pod— I didn’t even know what podcasts were, but my son mentioned “podcast” over Christmas, and I thought, “Well, shoot. Maybe I’ll go in there and see if there’s anything that might help me.” And so I began looking for “mindfulness.” For some reason, I felt like if I could just be more mindful . . .

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: It might help me, and what led me then was to your podcast. And I have to say, I listened to one and was immediately enchanted by your sense of humor, by the depth of material you were providing, and by your no-nonsense manner. I love the fact that right from the beginning you were talking about, you know, “Don’t tell me you don’t know—you know.”

Dr. Deb: That is a change.

Samantha: I have no idea if you are from New Jersey or not, and I don’t mean this to be critical of New Jersey, but I have people in my life from New Jersey, and they’re very straightforward and no-nonsense, and that was what it reminded me of.

Dr. Deb: Mm-hmm.

Samantha: And I thought, “Okay, maybe she can help me.” And this was the January of this year, and I started listening.

Dr. Deb: So what—because I always am so curious about this because there’s so many people out there who love the podcast—but what takes you from listening to the podcast to setting up a mini-session?

Samantha: Good question. You know, just from what I was learning by bingeing on your podcast, I stopped bulimia, and I was so proud of myself. And I had one slip, and I thought, “Hm, maybe I can’t do this by myself.” So, and I thought, well, “Nothing’s gonna hurt me by making that phone call. That’s free. So let me go ahead and do that.” And so, oh, I know what else led me to it. I wrote you a note.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: I don’t know if you remember that.

Dr. Deb: I do remember.

Samantha: Even before, and I was so surprised that within, I don’t know, one hour, it seemed, you wrote me back—and I was shocked. I thought, “This lady’s not going to get back to me for a few days, and that’ll be okay,” but you didn’t. You got back to me right that day, and I realized then, this is someone who really cares about what she’s doing, and that so impressed me. I think that’s what led me to my initial phone call with you. And from that initial phone call, I don’t know if you remember, but we worked on something that had nothing to do with food, and that had to do with, instead, I was struggling with two other things when I first started with you. One was the fact I was getting ready to turn 70.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: Yes, I had been bulimic from 25 to 70.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: 50 years of my life, but turning 70 was like, “Oh, gosh. My life is behind me. There’s nothing going,” you know, “Positive going in the future.” And on that mini-session, you turn that around immediately within probably the first 10 minutes of the conversation by just making me look at my thoughts, and I was so impressed by that. And so that’s what I think ultimately led me to signing on with you for a 12-week sessions with you.

Dr. Deb: So you’re saying that, you know, in 10 minutes, I turned it around?

Samantha: You, in 10 minutes, showed me the thought process. I was, my thought error.

Dr. Deb: I love that.

Samantha: You showed me my thought error.

Dr. Deb: I love that.

Samantha: And I, immediately, was able then to replace it with a thought that I truly believe, which is that, “The best is yet to come.”

Dr. Deb: Yes, and I believe after working with you that you 100% believe that.

Samantha: I absolutely 100% believe that.

Dr. Deb: Yeah, and have embraced your life in a way. . .

Samantha: I truly have.

Dr. Deb: . . .that is so impressive to me, and it’s so much what I would love our listeners to get out of this today is how much you embrace your life. And also the fact being that you’re talking about bulimia—and I’m certainly not talking about it in my podcast that I can cure that—but what I do talk about that I think really, really hit home for you is how your mind is in control of everything, and you just didn’t really understand that until you started hearing the podcasts and started playing around with what was going on up there.

Samantha: Absolutely. Absolutely correct. When I first started listening to your podcast, in fact, to my knowledge, maybe you, at one point, said in your own past, you may have been bulimic.

Dr. Deb: That’s true.

Samantha: But you just skipped over it.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: You didn’t, to my knowledge, you have never had a podcast on bulimia. And I thought in my own mind, well, you know, what I’ve learned in the past when I’ve tried to stop bulimia is that it’s a very difficult thing to cure or to turn around. Of course, now I realize that’s a thought error. But, you know, it convinced me of that and was one of the reasons I probably didn’t turn it around sooner. But no, when I started your podcast, there was nothing about bulimia, and however, the learning about how thoughts create—the model—learning about the CTFAR model.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: And thoughts lead to feelings, lead to all of that. I gotta write it down right now because I’m nervous. But the CTFAR model. . .

Dr. Deb: You got it. You got it.

Samantha: When I first heard it, it really didn’t make a lot— in fact, I remember where I was the day I listened to that podcast because you came on, and you were so excited, and you kept saying, “I’ve got the answer to all of your problems, and I’m going to share it with you.”

And I thought, “Wow, she’s gotta share her secrets.” And I listened to it, and I have to say, I was thrilled with it, but I didn’t truly understand it. It took a lot of study—intensive study—on my part, listening to other people who’d been through the program, and frankly, I’m going to thank those people. I downloaded the podcast, those former clients of yours who were willing to come on, and I listened to them. And I listened to them several times, and they served as inspiration for me, which is one of the reasons I agreed to do this today.

Dr. Deb: Yeah. So you could be one of them.

Samantha: Yeah. Well, so I could thank them. It’s my way of giving back and thanking them for being willing to put their story out there. Because when I heard their story, it was part of my healing process.

Dr. Deb: Oh, say something about that.

Samantha: Well, again, I remember exactly the day you introduced the model, where I was, what I was doing, but I didn’t truly understand it. But then soon thereafter, you had a couple clients come on—I even know which podcasts because I downloaded them.

Dr. Deb: Isn’t that something.

Samantha: Yeah, and they talked about how they applied it. I wish I knew which ones they were.

Dr. Deb: It’s okay.

Samantha: But I don’t, and they were just, they were giddy with how they had used the model, and I thought, “Well, crap. I better get on this model and figure out how it works.”

Dr. Deb: That nice big competitive nature.

Samantha: Exactly. So it made a big difference. Again, all of these people gave me hope. When I came to you, I had no hope. I had been living a lie for essentially 50 years of my life. Despite the fact I was successful in every other way, I was deceiving my husband, my family, my friends, my community.

Dr. Deb: Yourself.

Samantha: Myself. Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Yeah. And you know something I want to say about that because we’re going to get into, you know, really what your thoughts were about food and eating and all of that and how you’ve changed all of that around, which is why you are where you are right now. And it’s all really the same process. It’s like, you know, because you really did not have weight to lose, right?

Samantha: Not really.

Dr. Deb: Right. “Not really.”

Samantha: Not really.

Dr. Deb: Which is, a lot of my other clients too, that does happen a lot where you think you think your weight’s the problem, and it’s really not. So I really want to show people that what is up in your head causes so much more problems, you know, and what you see on the scale is a result of how you think in your head, to begin with.

Samantha: Correct.

Dr. Deb: And so, like now, like I would like, I wonder if there’s— because I think of so many things with you, one of the things that you say that I want everyone to hear is you keep talking about how you study.

Samantha: Yes, study.

Dr. Deb: And because you have so many degrees, we know that you’ve done a lot of studying. But what I find, and I have so much respect for you when it comes to working with me and my program because I think you approached working with me in my program as if it were another degree.

Samantha: Good point. I may have. I remember. . .

Dr. Deb: I know you— I think you may have. You think about it because you always say to me, “I studied this,” and when you send me back emails to show me what you were coming up with, it was from intense study.

Samantha: Correct.

Dr. Deb: I could see that—the work that you were doing. Why was it like that for you? Because this is what I would like other people to see. It’s like if you’re willing to put 100% in and really study, you’re going to get what you put in.

Samantha: Absolutely. And they need to hear you say that again and again. You did, one of your podcasts was massive action. And for some reason, that one really spoke to me. And it was like, you know, I probably had said to myself throughout the 50 years, “Well, I’m going to stop this. Well, I’m going to stop this. I’m going to turn this around.” But you know, what, somewhere within me, honest to goodness, I didn’t mean it, and I knew somewhere within me, I didn’t mean it.

And then I heard you do a podcast with a lady who was also intelligent, and you said to her in your work was a training session. I don’t think it was one of your ex-clients, but it was one of those other sessions. And you said to her, “How did you develop your business? Tell me the steps you took to develop your successful business,” and she went through the steps. And you said, “Why aren’t you using that now for what you want in regards to your weight?” And that kind of showed me massive action.

You know, whenever I wanted something in my life, I had to, I really had to fight for it, whatever it was. I didn’t have money to go to college, so I had a fight to go get that first degree and had a fight all my way up through all of my degrees. So I knew what it took if I set my mind on getting something. And so, yes, I used that model. So I wanted to learn what you were saying—not just hear it—but apply it to my life. I started getting up an hour early, which is unheard of for me because I love sleeping.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh.

Samantha: If I could sleep 10 hours a night, I would be a happy camper. And I struggled—I used to—to get up at 6:30, so I could go to work, et cetera. Now I get up at 5 am every day, just so, and I’m excited. I’m so excited to spend that time from 5 to 6:30 just studying, either listening again to your podcast or doing the CTFAR model on a problem that I’m going to deal with, making notes to myself, you’ll give me assignments—because I’m still working on issues, I’m still working on urges. I’m still working on anxiety, I’m still working on my self-worth. And so you’ll give me some homework, and I’ll tell you, “Okay, I’m going to work on that.” And so, I could keep going on and on.

Dr. Deb: Yeah. What you’re saying is what I think is really, really important is so, in your—if we’re thinking about the model right now—in your A-line, you’re getting up an hour early and doing the work.

Samantha: Correct.

Dr. Deb: So what I want people to hear is what’s your thought and your feeling that drives that action? Because that’s what we want people to figure out how to— you know, it’s not what you do. It’s like, yeah, the massive action is really important in the things that you’re doing, but in order to do it, you have to be thinking and feeling something that’s triggering that. What is it?

Samantha: How blessed my life has become since I started doing this, not only have I turned around the bulimia—I am totally bulimic-free, and I know for certainty that I will absolutely never be bulimic again. But I’m also—I have made massive changes, positive changes regarding my career. I’ve made massive positive changes regarding my age and what I’m going to do going forward. My life is exciting and fulfilling and honest for the first time in 50 years, and I know that I can do anything now that I’ve got this model—and I just have to apply it.

Am I going to be perfect? No. And you’ll call me on it, and we’ll deal with it. Am I going to make mistakes? Yes. But that’s okay because each mistake I make is an opportunity the next day to look at it and figure out what was the thought, what was the thought error that created the feeling that led to the action that I don’t want? Thought dumps—let me talk about thought dumps.

Dr. Deb: Go ahead.

Samantha: You did so many broadcasts that really impacted me. Massive action was one, but your thought dump, which I don’t think you like calling it thought dump, but to me, that’s exactly what it is.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: Whenever I’m working on something, I just purge my mind. And I’ll sit there in the mornings when I’m working on it, and I’ll just let the thoughts flow, and I’ll write them down as fast as I write them down.

Dr. Deb: Because I told you to do that.

Samantha: Exactly.

Dr. Deb: Everything I tell you to do, and all the homework I give you, you do it 100%.

Samantha: A 100%.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh. And I just want to interject for a minute because I want people to hear is that the reason you’re doing all of this work is because there’s something up in your mind that saying, “If I…” You have to tell me because the work that you’re doing, the study that you’re doing is stunning, right? And you’re getting the results that you want because you’re thinking something.

Samantha: Yes.

Dr. Deb: And I think what you’re thinking, but you can tell me it’s like, you know, “I can have the most incredible life as long as I do the work or…”

Samantha: Correct. I’ll take that thought. Keep going.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: Life, really—I can make my life anything I want it to be. Do you realize, at 70, what a wonderful thought that is? I don’t know where I’m going, but the world’s the limit. I can make more money if that’s what I want. I can start a new career if that’s what I want. I certainly can deal with food and relationships. My relationship with my husband because of my thought process changing has bloomed, and we’re at an intimacy level we haven’t been at years. The success and the blessings keep coming. In fact, you know, you and I’ve had to work on the fact that I still have some self-doubt that I deserve this wonderful life I’m living, and it’s almost like food is secondary. But the joy is unlimited, and it’s all within 100% in my control. 100%.

Dr. Deb: Your thoughts are 100% in your control.

Samantha: A 100% in my control—my thoughts, my feelings. And you know what I learned? The model—the CTFAR—can be worked backwards.

Dr. Deb: Right?

Samantha: I can pick a result I want and work the model back and figure out what thought do I have to have to generate what feeling, that with that feeling, will create the action that will give me the results. That was mind-blowing—that I realized any result that I want, any dream that I’ve had, is within my grasp if I want it to be, if I’m willing to put the action into it, the study into it, having a coach like you that keeps me on track, that helps me with the insecurities I still have.

Dr. Deb: Wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Samantha: That helps me identify. Helps me identify.

Dr. Deb: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a coach just helps you identify your own thinking.

Samantha: Correct. Absolutely.

Dr. Deb: Right, so that you have the opportunity to change it if you want. Because sometimes—and you can tell me where I’m wrong just like right now—sometimes what you say and what you think, sometimes, you’re agreeing with your thinking. Right? Because sometimes, we can’t see our own minds that clear.

Samantha: Correct. It’s like when I do the thought dump.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Samantha: I walk away from it and come back to it as a third party looking at it.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Samantha: Right. That’s what you do for me.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Samantha: When I’m in the midst of it, I can’t see it.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Samantha: But you’re like a third party looking at it, and you say, “Go do this. I love it.” You say, “I think you should kind of work on this. This. Work on,” you know, “deserving something.” “Okay, thank you. I’ll go work on that,” and then I do the work.

Dr. Deb: I want to interject you for one minute right here because I still want people to hear this. It’s like, the reason that you’re where you’re at is because you decided to go all-in on yourself and study it like if it was your law degree. I’m telling you, that’s how you went through this. You spend an hour every day on this work.

Samantha: Hour-and-a-half.

Dr. Deb: An hour-and-a-half.

Samantha: And I’m giddy when I get up. I am so excited.

Dr. Deb: Right.

Samantha: And I know what a change that is because I love sleeping in—and now, I’m giddy to get up, so I have that time.

Dr. Deb: Yeah. So I just want people to see that, you know, it’s really not me; it’s what’s inside everybody if they’re willing to go all-in on themselves.

Samantha: Absolutely. Oh, and I hope they hear that.

Dr. Deb: I hope they do too.

Samantha: No one has to live 50 years hiding from themselves—and it doesn’t have to be bulimia—it could be an eating disorder, a drinking disorder, a spending disorder. You just don’t have to.

Dr. Deb: Right. And so like what I want to— let’s just talk a little bit about food since that was the impetus to all of this in the beginning.

Samantha: Yes. Correct.

Dr. Deb: So how— because we talked a lot, we did a lot of food journals around food, and some of the things that came up for you for why you wanted to eat might be in social situations, right?

Samantha: Correct. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Deb: So do you want to talk about that just a little bit?

Samantha: Yes.

Dr. Deb: Because we know that there’s a lot of people out there that think that they can’t control themselves when they’re with other people and when they’re eating with other people and out to dinner with other people. So can you say some things about that about what you learn because you certainly study that intensely.

Samantha: Correct, and still do it tons.

Dr. Deb: Yes.

Samantha: I really do.

Dr. Deb: You never stop.

Samantha: I never stop. Okay, I’m gonna detour just for a second.

Dr. Deb: Please.

Samantha: I want to commend you.

Dr. Deb: Please commend me.

Samantha: I really like the way—I’ll commend you. Your podcasts were so brilliant, in that you first introduced us to diaries. And I was one of those people that used to be an old Weight Watcher, so I thought, “Oh, I’m not doing a diary. I don’t need that. I did it before. It was horrible. I’m not going to do that.”

Dr. Deb: Yeah. Food journal, you’re talking about, right?

Samantha: A food journal, diary, whatever.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh.

Samantha: I love my diaries. I will do them even when I’m not working with you; I will always do diaries, but. . .

Dr. Deb: Why is that?

Samantha: But you also. . .

Dr. Deb: Why would you always do them?

Samantha: Because it focus your mind—and that’s the first thing—you’ve got to focus your mind, whether…and really, I was on the right track. Mindfulness is it; you focus your mind. And when you’re doing the food journals, the diaries, you’re realizing what I ate, and you’re honest with yourself because why not be honest with yourself? If you really want this, be honest with yourself. So you can see it when you come back and look at it as a third party looking at it.

Okay, but you also introduced us early on to hunger scales and emotional hunger scales before you introduce the model. Because some of those thoughts, it took me a while to understand. In fact, do you remember when you, one of the first assignments you gave me was to begin to feel my body, begin to feel hunger, begin to feel it in my body.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: And just that simple assignment threw me into a panic because I had spent so many years detached from my body.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: So we got through that.

Dr. Deb: You got through that.

Samantha: I got through that. With help of my friend, I got through that.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: And then I began to really understand the model, but some of that is—there’s progression. I think learning to feel your body and your own hunger signals is absolutely foundational, and it takes a little bit to learn—but you will learn it, and you can trust your body. You said earlier—I promise you, I’m gonna get back to your question—but you said earlier that I wasn’t overweight. Even though I thought I was, I wasn’t really overweight, but the one thing you do about bulimia, you’re afraid to eat for fear you’ll gain weight.

Dr. Deb: Exactly.

Samantha: You taught me with a hunger scale and the emotional hunger scale, I could trust my body. And now, I am. . .

Dr. Deb: No, no, no, no, no. I didn’t teach you that; I just, I taught you how you can connect to your body, and once you started connecting to your body, you could start trusting your body because you could start seeing what was going on.

Samantha: You’re absolutely correct.

Dr. Deb: Instead of having so much fear about your body, and that was really scary for you in the beginning. It’s what you’re saying. And it’s scary for everybody who’s been. . .

Samantha: A panic attack.

Dr. Deb: Yes, who’s had a weight issue. Everybody is scared to trust their bodies because they think it’s going to do something they don’t want it to do.

Samantha: Well, bottom line, now the thought is, and I would invite other people to get to that—you can trust your body. You can trust your body. Okay, now go into social.

Dr. Deb: Okay, but wait. Wait one minute. I just want to say for you, you 100% can trust your body now, right?

Samantha: I can 100% trust my body.

Dr. Deb: Right.

Samantha: And that’s just absolutely amazing.

Dr. Deb: I know. It’s huge. I just, you know, and for…

Samantha: Now, you eat when you’re hungry; stop when you’re full. You’ve got to pay attention to the “rules.”

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: I mean, your protocol—whatever your protocol is. So if you go out there, and you eat past your hunger, I mean, past your being full, you’re gonna gain some weight. But if you eat only when you’re hungry and stop when your body tells you it’s full, you’re gonna be fine.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh, and you are fine. And that’s the biggest thing for you regardless if it’s an eating disorder, or you know. problem, or if it’s— because you know, even with an eating disorder, it’s just a thing with weight and body image. It’s all the same stuff, right?

Samantha: It is.

Dr. Deb: And people just exhibit it in all kinds of different ways.

Samantha: Correct.

Dr. Deb: And some people need a lot more help than what I can do here, and some people need exactly what I have here, but it’s all due to that. And so, with you, I would like you— what you’re sharing is so important because you didn’t trust your body, and because you didn’t trust your body, that’s why you had the problems that you had.

Samantha: Absolutely.

Dr. Deb: And with anybody out there who doesn’t trust their body is going to have some kind of problem.

Samantha: Correct.

Dr. Deb: Right? And so. . .

Samantha: Absolutely. Yes.

Dr. Deb: So tell us, with your social situations—because that’s the most amount of questions that I ever get is—well, you know, people feel like they’re being deprived if they can’t go out and eat whatever they want and all that when they’re with their friends.

Samantha: But I can eat whatever I want when I go out with my friends.

Dr. Deb: Talk about that.

Samantha: Again, my thought, my protocol is really pretty simple. I eat when I’m hungry, I stop when I’m not, and I eat only the foods that will give me the result I want. So when I’m at the table with my friends, I have to always take a deep breath. I have to keep myself there because. . .

Dr. Deb: I love it.

Samantha: Because there are some other thoughts out there like, “Oh, I’ve got to make them happy,” which I’ve had to work on.

Dr. Deb: Talk about that. Talk about that.

Samantha: That was a thought error that I have to make these people happy, which would lead me to be nervous, frightened, scared. And when I’m nervous, frightened, scared, of course, I want to eat to make that feeling go away. So I hadn’t. . .

Dr. Deb: Used to. Used to.

Samantha: Used to. Right.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh.

Samantha: That was the thought error. I had to interrupt that.

Dr. Deb: Beautiful.

Samantha: And I’ve learned how to interrupt that thought error and replace it with, “Take a deep breath. Recenter yourself. Remember, you eat when you’re hungry, you stop when you’re full, and you eat only the things that will give you the result you want.” So today, I want to stay at the weight that I’m at. So okay, someone’s offering wine. “Do you want wine?” “Hmm. Yes, no.” I love the fact you made us plan it. I only do it when I plan it. I didn’t like that at first, by the way.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh.

Samantha: I thought. . .

Dr. Deb: Why not?

Samantha: I just didn’t like that, having to plan 24 hours in advance.

Dr. Deb: Why?

Samantha: I thought that was too restrictive.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh.

Samantha: And I felt like I was being deprived.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh.

Samantha: And then I decided, “No, I can have it anytime I want, but will I get the result I want if I have it?” So then I realized, you know, one of the ways to handle urges—and I still have urges. . .

Dr. Deb: Yeah, me too.

Samantha: . . .but one of the ways to handle them, not fight them, not try to hold them down, but to realize they’re there.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: So I made the decision that for my protocol—other people may make a decision differently—but from my protocol, I will make decisions about alcohol or joy food 24 hours in advance.

Dr. Deb: How’s that working for you?

Samantha: It works tremendously. And now I’m trying to apply that to spending, and again, using the same model, using the same kind of thought, interrupting thought errors and all of that.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh.

Samantha: One of the best things I’ve learned is I can live with any feeling. I can live with being uncomfortable about saying “no” to alcohol or “no” to bread or “no” to chips or “no” to dessert. I can live with the discomfort in my body that I get from that, and then what I find interesting, may not go away in 90 seconds, but it goes away, and nothing happens bad.

Dr. Deb: Well, actually something good happens.

Samantha: Absolutely. Something good happens.

Dr. Deb: Right?

Samantha: Everything good happens. Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Exactly. And the fear is, is that it’s going to be way too hard, that it’s going to be way too painful.

Samantha: It’s uncomfortable, I’m not going to lie about that.

Dr. Deb: Yeah, but you can handle it.

Samantha: But I’m a big girl. Yeah, I can handle it. Because the payoff is, the reward is so much greater than anything. Those are some of my wow moments when I was initially listening to you, and one of the questions you said, you know, “Are you getting the result you want? And if you’re not, do something to change it.” Well, obviously, I wasn’t getting the result I wanted, and so I had to work to change it.

Dr. Deb: Uh-huh. And you have, my darling, have you not?

Samantha: Oh, thank you.

Dr. Deb: Yeah. You’ve done the work. So here, you have given so much great information to people. And, you know, like, I especially love the thought that you have around eating when you’re hungry, stopping when you’re full, and eating food that only gives you the results that you want, and it’s a thought that you really believe.

Samantha: I absolutely believe

Dr. Deb: Right, and which is so important. You can’t just pick a thought that sounds good unless you can feel it in your body that it feels right. Right?

Samantha: But try it on. I mean, don’t—

Dr. Deb: Exactly.

Samantha: The fact your first thought doesn’t work for you, that doesn’t mean that there’s not a thought out there that won’t work for you. So try it on. Write it down; see how it feels. If it feels like, “Yeah, I can live that. Yeah, I believe that,” you found it. If it doesn’t, there’s another thought you can think. Or you taught “laddering,” which there may be a way to get to that thought.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: And I don’t understand laddering enough that I can say a lot about it. I’ve used it, where that, you know.

Dr. Deb: Yeah. What you’re just saying is when I talk about laddering, is sometimes what people want, and certainly what you wanted too, is like, when you have a thought that you know doesn’t give you the result you want, you just want to go to a great thought that you know will give you the result you want.

Samantha: Like 360 degrees the other way.

Dr. Deb: Exactly. And the only problem with the thought is that when you think it, it doesn’t change the way you feel.

Samantha: No, because you know it’s not true.

Dr. Deb: Because you know it’s not true.

Samantha: But you can work your way up there.

Dr. Deb: That’s what laddering is. And the way you work your way up, there is, you know, if you’re in a thought process that creates really negative emotion, then sometimes just thinking something that gives you less negative emotion is a much better thought than trying to get to the pretty thought that doesn’t change anything.

Samantha: Right, that doesn’t change anything.

Dr. Deb: Right, and you did a lot of that. And you did a lot of that.

Samantha: I did a lot of that.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: Another reason: you get up, and you work on it.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: And you know, it’s not hard. It’s not like I’m suffering. In fact, as I said, it’s joyful for me to get up and do this because it’s like I discover something new every day. You know, I started to list of all the things— I started it originally because I was going to memorize it, thinking it was gonna be a short. . .

Dr. Deb: Of course, you were.

Samantha: It was going to be a shortlist.

Dr. Deb: I mean, you’re getting another law degree. I think you’re just going after this as you’re going to be, get a lot to create in this.

Samantha: Write a book or whatever. Yeah.

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: But it got so big, of all the new thoughts that I just adore, that I finally realize I can’t memorize all of these so I can just keep them on my iPad, and I can read through them quickly, but I guess, there’s so many. . .

Dr. Deb: So beautiful. It’s like, in your closet, hopefully, you have like your favorite clothes that you go in, and you pick out, and they all, and your thoughts that you have, your favorite thoughts, it’s like in your closet, you can go in, and you can pick one. I love that idea. Alright. So I think you’ve really given people lots of great information about your process and about how hard you’ve worked because it really does take that hard work and commitment. It’s like, I think what I have to offer is wonderful, I will agree with you.

Samantha: I would also agree.

Dr. Deb: But because you got the results that you got wasn’t as much about my great tools as it was about your own commitment to yourself.

Samantha: Correct. I do agree with that. Saying to yourself, “Do I really mean it this time?”

Dr. Deb: Yeah.

Samantha: “And am I really willing to commit 100% and do whatever I have to do to make this happen?”

Dr. Deb: Mm-hmm.

Samantha: And whatever I had to do was anything you told me I needed to do, I did. And then I went above and beyond that because that’s how hungry I was for change.

Dr. Deb: You wanted it so bad that you were willing to do whatever it takes. I really want people to hear this because it really takes that kind of thinking.

Samantha: It does.

Dr. Deb: Right? And when you’ve got that thinking, you know, the world really is yours. I mean, that’s what you have done.

Samantha: Absolutely. Life is unlimited.

Dr. Deb: Life is unlimited, and that’s what I think you’ve learned more than anything. And you know, now that the way that you see food and the way that you see your body and the way that you see your life is so different because of that intense work that you did with the tools that I taught you.

Samantha: Correct.

Dr. Deb: That’s what’s available to everybody.

Samantha: And that is whatever is available to every one of your listeners.

Dr. Deb: If they’re willing to think like you. So listen, I have enjoyed every minute of working with you. I have enjoyed every minute of talking with you today. And I know that this is going to be your last time—you have just told us in a hundred different ways. And all I can say is thank you for being on here. Thank you for being an inspiration to everybody that listens to this podcast, and I can’t wait to talk to you again.

Samantha: Let me end by just saying, Deb, you know, you give and give of yourself with these free podcasts for those people that may not be able to, for whatever reason, actually hire you as a coach—hopefully, one day they will be—but you need to realize how grateful we are that you put that material out in the world. It’s a great gift. It’s unselfish on your part, and I commend you for that.

Dr. Deb: Thank you.

Samantha: You offered me something that I needed, but more importantly, you have allowed me to take care of myself in a way that I would never have been able to do had that podcast and you not been there, right when it was probably supposed to be there for me. So, thank you for letting me be the best version of myself. Every day, from here on, I can’t tell you how grateful I am for that.

Dr. Deb: Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Samantha: You’re welcome.

Dr. Deb: I know. That was amazing. She is an amazing woman. And I bet most of the people that know her in her life have always thought that about her. But you can see that she has done, finally, that inner work that’s gonna make the rest of her life so much better. And one of the things that I want to point out about her that I really noticed when I was working with her, and I know I talked about it in the podcast, is that she does have a lot of degrees just like you probably do, and so she knows how to study.

And she knows from studying is how she made these degrees happening by working really hard and doing the work. And she really did approach the work with me in the exact same way, which is why I think she got these amazing results for herself is because she really did study, every single day, on this work and make sure that she got what I was talking about.

And I want you to know that that is available to you too if you take it as seriously as she did. For all of my clients, in one way or another, this is what happens—is they take it seriously, and they honor those commitments to themselves. And Samantha was absolutely no different than that, except that she kept saying to me about studying and what could she study next, which brought me to this conclusion about that’s what it takes.

It takes studying it and taking it as seriously as if you were getting a college degree in something that was going to help you for the rest of your life. This is no different. This is what I want you to take away from this interview, if nothing else is, are you willing to study and put the time in to get what you want out of this? And if you are, this is available to you too, either through my podcast or through working with me directly, which is what Samantha decided to do.

If you want to work directly with me to learn this work, I’m your girl. And all you have to do is go to drdebbutler.com/workwithme, and you can set up a mini-session to find out if you would be a good fit for this program. And one of the ways that I decide if you’re going to be a good fit for my program, if you’re willing to study and to treat this as if you were going to get a degree in something for the rest of your life because I know if that’s where your mind is, I know what your result is going to be.

So, if this sounds good to you, go to drdebbutler.com/workwithme. And sweetheart, you know what I’m going to say next. No matter what else you do this week, I want you to be very, very kind to yourself. Bye-bye.

Dr. Michael Butler: I would like to invite you to correspond with Dr. Deborah. Go to iTunes, drdebbutler.com/itunes, and you can review the show, and you can even give some helpful suggestions on what you would like to talk about in the future to accomplish your mindfulness in your journey into mindfulness. Thank you.